Episodes

16.1—Horace Greeley interviews Brigham Young on 13 July 1859.

Salient Events

• 5 February 1859. The writer for this brief article in the Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian quotes from a letter written by a Latter-day Saint “signing himself John Davies, of Merthyr”:

According to my promise to you at Cardiff, I now address you a few lines. Last Sunday I was at Swansea with President Evans and brother John. We had a very good conference there, and indeed have had in each of the conferences in the mission. We have endeavored to instill in the minds of the Saints the counsel and instructions we received from you at Cardiff, and my faith is, that a large amount will be added to the Emigration Fund the coming year from Wales. I have been traveling in the ministry nearly eight years, and I can truly say that I never saw so good a feeling generally as there is now. The whole Welsh mission, with but very few exceptions, is in good working order and healthy condition. President Evans, myself, and brother John are as one in mind and feelings, and so we have been. We are looking for a good time at Birmingham.[1]

The writer for the Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian observes that “the agents of Mormonism are making strenuous efforts to spread their debasing tenets throughout the Welsh district.” He also remarks that the author of the letter “expresses himself confident of making great progress in Wales” and then adds the following comment: “For the sake, not only of true religion, but of common decency, we hope he will find himself thoroughly deceived.”[2]

• 12 March 1859. An article titled “Quarreling Mormons at Risca” is published in the Cardiff Times. Thomas Bullock, a Latter-day Saint, had pressed charges against Prudence Taylor for breaking the back door of his house and eight panes of glass. The questions posed to Bullock by a Mr. Owen, representing the defendant, suggest that Taylor had left her husband in order to go off to Salt Lake City with Joseph Thatcher, a Latter-day Saint, who was probably serving a mission in Wales at the time. Taylor “was ordered to pay 19s., the amount of damage, with costs, and told that she might reserve the right to sue Bullock for the assault.” [3]
• 11 April 1859. Elder Henry Harries and Mary Rees Harries sail from Liverpool on board the William Tapscott, along with 723 other Latter-day Saints. Only a small number of these emigrants were Welsh. Henry and Mary had married just four weeks earlier.[4] Nine years earlier, Henry’s right arm and hand had been mangled in a mill accident. But without the use of his injured arm, Henry had managed to travel to Salt Lake City in 1854 and then to return to Wales on a mission in 1857. After returning to the United States in 1859, Henry and Mary settled in Salt Lake City and became the parents of fourteen children. Henry returned to Wales one more time in 1886 to receive his inheritance of about $3,000, an inheritance that his father, while living, had denied him as punishment for his conversion to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• 9 September 1859. An account of Horace Greeley’s 13 July 1859 interview with Brigham Young is presented in this issue of the Welshman. The complete interview appeared the following day in the North Wales Chronicle. See Episode 16.1.
• 10 December 1859. A 24 September 1859 letter from Daniel Daniels, writing from his home in Salt Lake City, appears in this issue of Zion’s Trumpet. Daniels provides information on a number of the Welsh Saints then living in various parts of Utah, and he extends an invitation for the Latter-day Saints still in Wales to make haste in joining him in Zion.

(The five extant issues of the 1859 Zion’s Trumpet offer sufficient pagination information to conclude that a complete, weekly volume was published during the year.)

Commentary

1859: 22 January, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 9 (130 words).

We have papers and correspondence from Utah up to the 4th December. President Buchanan’s proclamation of pardon to the Mormons was before the court of the third judicial district. Judge Sinclair claimed the right first to find out the guilty, pass sentence, and then apply the pardon. The prosecuting attorney for the United States supports the executive, commissioners, and new governor, and regards the course of the judge as unnecessarily tending to increase difficulties in that territory... Accounts from Utah state that the service of a civil process upon Brigham Young had been resisted by his friends, and that trouble would perhaps grow out of it. There is, however, but little danger of serious difficulty in that region so long as General Johnston with his troops remains there.

1859: 5 February, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 10 (175 words). “A Mormon Invitation.”

Original punctuation and spelling have been maintained:

A man of the name of Thomas Reed [5], who five years since deserted his wife and children to go to the Salt Lake City, has just written to Derby, asking his wife to come out to him. In a long letter, filled partly with “cant” and descriptions of his possessions, he states this strange inducement for his wife to join the Mormon sect: “I have Got A Nother wife and a Little Girl and Boy the Little Girl her name is Jane Elizabeth and the Little Boy is namd Thomas Robey Read the Little Girl is Just Lick my Little Jane and the Little Boy is Just Like my Thomas William and of them I am not ashamd Jane and Me Often talk abought you and wishes you ware all heare if you Can Make your Self comfortable a long with another woman or More as the Case may bee and Subject your Selvs to the law of Christ.” Death has spared the poor woman, to whom this letter was addressed, the pain of perusing its atrocities.

1859: 5 February, Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, p. 5 (240 words). “Mormonism in Wales.”

The agents of Mormonism are making strenuous efforts to spread their debasing tenets throughout the Welsh district. In a newspaper published by the fanatics, appears a letter from a man signing himself John Davies, of Merthyr, to President Calkin. He expresses himself confident of making great progress in Wales, but for the sake, not only of true religion, but of common decency, we hope he will find himself thoroughly deceived. Here is part of his epistle: “According to my promise to you at Cardiff, I now address you a few lines. Last Sunday I was at Swansea with President Evans and brother John. We had a very good conference there, and indeed have had in each of the conferences in the mission. We have endeavored to instill in the minds of the Saints the counsel and instructions we received from you at Cardiff, and my faith is, that a large amount will be added to the Emigration Fund the coming year from Wales. I have been traveling in the ministry nearly eight years, and I can truly say that I never saw so good a feeling generally as there is now. The whole Welsh mission, with but very few exceptions, is in good working order and healthy condition. President Evans, myself, and brother John are as one in mind and feelings, and so we have been. We are looking for a good time at Birmingham.”

1859: March, Y Dysgedydd (Instructor), p. 124 (146 words). “Mormon Invitation.”

The same article with some variation as appeared in the Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald for 5 February 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 12 March, Cardiff Times, p. 4 (375 words). “Quarreling Mormons at Risca.”

Newport Police Intelligence. Saturday. (Before the Rev. T. Pope and J. Lewis, Esq.)
Prudence Taylor was charged with breaking the windows of Thomas Bullock. Mr. Owen was for the defendant. Complainant said the defendant came to his house on Sunday week, and tried to force her way in, and in so doing broke the back door. He put her out, when she broke eight panes of glass. Mr. Owen (to complainant): I believe you had the misfortune to lodge in this woman’s house at one time? Complainant: Yes. Mr. Owen: You are a Mormon; didn’t you try to get her to the Salt Lake? Complainant: My religion teaches me to pray for the Queen upon her throne, her administration, and her subjects, from the highest to the lowest. I have always done so, but don’t know whether you have or not—that’s my religion, if you want to know anything about it. Mr. Owen: Did you tell her it would be a good thing if she would go to Salt Lake and become one of your wives? Complainant: No, I didn’t. I did not strike her. I merely lifted her by the arms and put her out of the house. She did not break the window before I put her out. I never made any arrangement with her husband to go to Salt Lake. Their goods came to my house on a Monday morning, on which occasion her husband came to me at about six o’clock and said, “My wife is gone off again with that man, (the man meant was Joseph Thatcher), and will you be kind enough to let me put my goods into your house, for I’m determined I will not live with her anymore.” It is no difference whether Thatcher is of her or of my persuasion. Mr. Owen, addressing the bench, did not contend against the fact that the offence had been committed, but submitted that there had been much provocation. Mr. Pope said the complainant should not have taken the law into his own hands. The defendant was ordered to pay 19s., the amount of damage, with costs, and told that she might reserve the right to sue Bullock for the assault.

1859: 12 March, Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, p. 3 (230 words). “Dissensions among the Latter-day Saints.”

This article has similar content, though with fewer details, as the one in the Cardiff Times for 12 March 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 18 March, Cambrian, (30 words). “Marriage.”

This is the announcement of the marriage of Henry Harries, a Latter-day Saint missionary, to Mary Rees.

On 15th inst. at Llanelly parish church (by license) Rev. D.M. Rees, curate, Mr Henry Harries President of the Latter-day Saint conference, to Miss Mary Rees of Meadow, Bedwellty, Mon.

Henry had gone to Utah in 1854 and three years later returned to Wales on a mission. His marriage to Mary Rees took place just a few days before they left Wales for Utah.

1859: 9 April, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 10 (50 words).

The steamship L. N. Hvidt, belonging to the Danish General Steam Navigation Company, is expected to arrive at Hull on Sunday next, from Copenhagen, with about 400 Mormon passengers, en route for the Salt Lake. We understand there is a further lot of about 500 to follow. Eastern Counties Herald.

1859: 9 April, Merthyr Telegraph, p. 4 (100 words). “A Gentile and His Mormon Bride Separated in Utah.”

A Gentile resident of Frogtown a short time ago went over to Provo after a young woman, who, it seems had taken a fancy to him, and who wished to leave Provo and come and live in Frogtown with her Gentile admirer. But a mob collected around the house where she and her lover were, and he was advised that he would find it conducive to his health to leave immediately, which he did. The young woman was then taken out and publicly whipped.—Utah Correspondent of the New York Tribune.
Frogtown has since been renamed Fairfield.

1859: 30 April, Chepstow Weekly Advertiser, p. 3 (195 words). “Latest about the Mormons.”

Advices from Utah to the 9th of March had reached New York, from which it is evident that the citizens of that territory conclude that it is about time to again knock at the door of Congress and apply for admission into the Union as a sovereign State. From private sources we learn that the Mormons are satisfied that sending the army and new Federal officers to their territory, though at first it promised a collision, is turning to their advantage in a political point of view. Many of the charges against them have, in the course of investigation, been refuted, and consequently the prejudice of the Gentiles in the States is somewhat diminished. Every mail brings confirmation of a good understanding between the military and civil chief in the territory on Mormon matters. It is stated, however, but with what degree of truth we do not vouch, that Brigham Young is unpopular with the Mormons and that he has agents in the northern provinces of Mexico, and also in Central America, prospecting for a location to which he and his partisans may remove, and set up an independent hierarchy.

1859: 30 April, Merthyr Telegraph, p. 3 (195 words).

The same article as in the Chepstow Weekly Advertiser for 30 April 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 30 April, North Wales Chronicle, p. 5 (195 words).

The same article as in the Chepstow Weekly Advertiser for 30 April 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 14 May, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 2 (45 words).

Accounts from Utah represent the condition of that territory to be deplorable. Irreconcilable dissentions exist among the United States officials. The Mormon Juries persist in refusing to return verdicts against Mormon prisoners, and a collision between the Mormons and the United States troops is apprehended.

1859: 28 May, North Wales Chronicle, p. 2 (110 words). “Arrival of English Mormons in America.”

On Wednesday morning a part of about one hundred and thirty Mormons came from the East by the Central Railroad and went to the west by the Canada route. They are destined for Utah, to join the colony of Brigham Young. This party was composed chiefly of females, many of whom were young and tolerably fair. They were from England and Wales, and were attended by Elders, who took good care none of the lambs strayed from the flock. The party were not disposed to hold conversation with the “Gentiles”—and had doubtless been advised to preserve the silence they maintained. Washington Union.

1859: 4 June, Merthyr Telegraph, p. 4 (155 words). “Reinforcement of Mormons.”

On Friday the ship William Tapscott arrived at New York, bringing seven hundred and twenty-six Mormon immigrants, including women and children. One half of them are from England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales; the other half from Norway, Sweden, Denmark. On Saturday about five hundred of them left for the West by the Albany steamer. President Brigham Young had sent positive instructions to his agents to push all immigrants forward towards Utah as rapidly as possible, and in thirty hours from the time they landed at Castle Garden, the main body were in motion up the Hudson. Verily, the Mormons have energy. The company had altogether 50,000 lbs. of baggage. It is said that not a person tarried behind who had the means to pursue his journey westward, but on the other hand, great numbers went on with the certainty that they must suffer toil and privation by reason of their poverty. Boston Courier.

1859: 4 June, Wrexham Advertiser, p. 2 (155 words).

The same article as in the Merthyr Telegraph for 4 June 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 4 June, North Wales Chronicle, p. 3, Item #1 (155 words).

The same article as in the Merthyr Telegraph for 4 June 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 4 June, North Wales Chronicle, p. 3, Item #2 (2,230 words). “A Religious Riot.”

A very long article recounting Andrew Balfour Hepburn’s arrest for creating a riot and disturbance at a lecture hall and assaulting Jams Portch, a police constable, in the execution of his duty.

1859: 11 June, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 10 (265 words). “The Mormon Quarrel.”

The writer reports that Judge Cradlebaugh, the federal judge for the district in Salt Lake City, believed that his life was in danger from uncooperative Latter-day Saints and called upon General Johnston for aid and protection. But Governor Cumming intervened and “openly took part with the Mormons.” The writer concludes:

What will be the end of it nobody knows, and to tell the truth, nobody cares. People are generally very tired of the Mormon imbroglio, and with a great war raging in Europe are not disposed to spend much time in thinking of a little war on the shores of the Salt Lake.

1859: 25 June, North Wales Chronicle, p. 6 (125 words).

The latest advices from Utah represent that the people are in an excited and turbulent condition, bordering on rebellion. Governor Cumming had issued a proclamation ordering the Mormon militia, who had assembled for belligerent purposes, to disperse. These parties are a portion of the militia called out by the governor to resist the entrance of the Government troops during the session of the court at Salt Lake City. The Mormons are being monthly augmented by the arrival of foreign converts. The civil law having failed to answer its purpose, it is the opinion of intelligent Gentiles in the territory that peace can be preserved only by strong military rule, or bloodshed averted by favoring the removal of the Mormons beyond the jurisdiction of the United States.

1859: July, Y Bedyddiwr (Baptist), p. 211 (90 words). “Question.”

The question is posed by someone who calls himself “Sentinel,” possibly the editor himself:

I would like to know whether the account of the origin of the Book of Mormon was given in any volume of the Baptist? If it was, in which volume? If it was not, I believe that such an account would be very interesting to many of your readers. I have heard that the foundation of this book was a novel written by a minister to amuse himself during his illness. Information of the truth in this matter would be of particular pleasure to your obedient servant, “Sentinel.”

1859: 27 August, Cardiff Times, p. 5 (70 words). “The Salt Lake.”

We have advices from the Great Salt Lake to the 13th ultimo. A man named Brewer, had been arrested at Camp Floyd, for having in his possession 80,000 in counterfeit government cheques on the sub-treasury at St. Louis, most of which were ready for issue, excepting the signature. Horace Greely had arrived at Salt Lake City. The Indians were committing depredations in Humboldt county, and the Mormons were implicated.

1859: September, Y Bedyddiwr (Baptist), p. 274 (220 words). “Answer to the Question of ‘Sentinel’ in the July Baptist.”

The answer presented to the question in the July 1859 issue (see previous entry) is that the Book of Mormon derived from the writings of one Solomon Spaulding.

1859: 3 September, Usk Observer, p. 4 (195 words). “Statistics of Mormon Population.”

The Valley Tan copies the following statistics of Mormon population:

The population of Mormons in the United States and British dominions in 1856 was not less than 68,700—of which 38,000 were resident in Utah, 5,000 in New York State, 4,000 in California, 5,000 in Nova Scotia and the Canadas, and 9,000 in South America. In Europe there were 30,000; of which 22,000 were in Great Britain and Ireland, 5,000 in Scandinavia, 1,000 in Germany and Switzerland, and in France and the rest of Europe, 1,000; in Australia and Polynesia, 2,400; in Africa, 100; and on travel, 2,800. To these if we add the different schismatic branches, including Strangeites, Rigdonites, and Whiteites, and whole sect was not less than 126,000. In 1857 there appears to have been a decrease in the population of Utah—the number being only 31,022; of whom 9,000 were children, about 11,000 women, and 11,000 men capable of bearing arms. There are 388 men with 8 or more wives; of these 13 have more than 19 wives, 780 men with 5 wives, 1,100 with 4, and 2,400 with more than 1 wife. Recapitulation—4,617 men, with 16,500 wives.

Episode 16.1

Start: Horace Greeley interviews Brigham Young on 13 July 1859.

1859: 9 September, Welshman, p. 6 (880 words). “A Visit to Brigham Young.”

Mr. Horace Greeley, the editor of the New York Tribune gives an account in his paper of a visit he paid to Brigham Young, and of the conversation he held with him on the doctrines of the Mormons. When Brigham Young stated that none of the ministers or bishops received salaries, Mr. Greeley asked—“How then, do your ministers live?” Brigham Young replied—“By the labor of their own hands, like the first apostles. Every bishop, every elder, may be daily seen at work in the field or the shop, like his neighbors; every minister of the church has his proper calling, by which he earns the bread for his family.[6]

1859: 17 September, Wrexham Advertiser, p. 3 (880 words). “A Visit to Brigham Young.”

The same article as in the Welshman for 9 September 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 10 September, North Wales Chronicle, p. 6 (1,620 words). “Mormonism.”

Here is the initial segment:

Mr. Horace Greeley, editor of the New York Tribune, records the following conversation with Brigham Young. It is valuable as the direct replies of the avowed leader of the Mormons to the searching questions of a clever man.

H. G.: Am I to regard Mormonism (so-called) as a new religion, or as simply a new development of Christianity?

B. Y.: We hold that there can be no true Christian Church without a priesthood directly commissioned by and in immediate communication with the Son of God and Savior of mankind. Such a church is that of the Latter-day Saints, called by their enemies Mormons; we know no other that even pretends to have present and direct revelations of God’s will.

H. G.: Then I am to understand that you regard all other churches professing to be Christian as the Church of Rome regards all churches not in communion with itself—as schismatic, heretical, and out of the way of salvation?

B. Y.: Yes, substantially.

H. G.: Apart from this, in what respect do your doctrines differ from those of our Orthodox Protestant Churches—the Baptist or Methodist, for example?

B. Y.: We hold the doctrines of Christianity, as revealed in the Old and New Testaments—also in the Book of Mormon, which teaches the same cardinal truths, and those only.

1859: November, Y Bedyddiwr (Baptist), pp. 33–34 (1,720 words). “Two Hours with Brigham Young.”

The first two paragraphs are as follows:

On his recent visit to Salt Lake City the following conversation took place between Mr. Horace Greeley, the editor of the New York Tribune, and Brigham Young, the president of the Mormon church.

After a few preliminary conversations (says Mr. G.) I said that I intended to ask some questions in order to get a broader understanding of the doctrines and organization of the Mormon church to which I would like to have direct answers, if there were no objections. President Young promised to give answers to all pertinent and polite questions. Then we went along as follows:

The remainder of this article is identical to that of the North Wales Chronicle for 10 September 1859 (see previous entry).

End: Horace Greeley interviews Brigham Young on 13 July 1859.

1859: 17 September, Cardiff Times, p. 3 (45 words). “A Disgraceful Scene.”

A Mormon preacher held forth on Thursday evening near the weighing machine Crockherbtown, and was met by Mr. Goodman, who controverted his dogmas. The crowd became excited at the Mormon who ultimately retreated, followed by a host who hooted him down Working Street.

Crockherbtown Street has since been renamed “Queen Street,” the main thoroughfare in downtown Cardiff.

1859: October, Yr Haul (Sun), p. 318 (70 words). “The Middle of the way is what is best.”

Catholicism forbids their priests to marry; and Mormonism allows their priests to marry as many as they wish. Brigham Young gives a new explanation to the words, “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife.” “Yes,” says Brigham, in debating with Horace Greeley, “yes, the husband of one wife at least; but the more wives the better.”

1859: 1 October, Cardiff Times, p. 5 (85 words). “To Correspondents.”

“G. Taylor” writes in reference to the paragraph headed “Disgraceful Scene,” which appeared a fortnight ago [see previous entry], and gives a number of polemical questions and answers to show that it was not a disgraceful scene. We cannot insert such a report of the affair, neither is it necessary, as the writer admits there was a disturbance, and that was all which the paragraph in question dealt with. We cannot be a party to disseminating Mormon dogmas by means of a side-wind, as the letter attempts.

1859: 8 October, Usk Observer, p. 3 (12 words).

Several assassinations have been reported by the Mormons at the Salt Lake.

1859: 15 October, Chepstow Weekly Advertiser, p. 3 (130 words). “It Is Time They Were Rooted Out.”

The state of things in Utah (says an American correspondent of the Morning Post) continues to be most disgraceful to us. Polygamy is on the increase there. Old men marry (?) young women by the half-dozen; and cases are known in which mothers and daughters are the wives so-called of the same aged ruffians. One instance is mentioned in which a “venerable gentleman” has among his wives a mother and four daughters; and in another, a man has 10 wives, three of whom are sisters, and he is about to espouse their sister, who is about 13 years old. Of his other wives it is not stated they are relatives. Five thousand Mormons have arrived in Utah this season from Europe.

1859: 28 October, Welshman, p. 6 (33 words).

There are at present in the world about one hundred and twenty-one thousand Mormons. Eighty-three thousand live in Utah, of whom four thousand six hundred and seventeen have sixteen thousand five hundred wives.

1859: 29 October, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, p. 9 (33 words).

Same as the article in the Welshman for 28 October 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 29 October, Cardiff Times, p. 5 (65 words). “Christianity versus Mormonism.”

Last Sunday a gentleman from Bristol preached in the open air at the docks, his object being to check the progress of Mormon dogmas. We understand he is engaged in performing a similar work in a circuit of twenty miles round Bristol, and having heard that Cardiff was a place often visited by the Mormons he came hither to preach the gospel also.

1859: 5 November, Monmouthshire Beacon, p. 2 (33 words).

Same as the article in the Welshman for 28 October 1859.

1859: 19 November, Cardiff Times, p. 8 (100 words). “The Family of Joe Smith.”

The Boston Courier says:

The family of the great Mormon prophet, Joe Smith, still dwell in Nauvoo. No persuasions can prevail on them to remove to Utah. His widow has married again, and with her husband keeps the Mansion house, the only house of entertainment that the city affords. The eldest son, who bears his father’s name of Joseph, is a justice of the peace, and a useful and much respected citizen. Great inducements have been offered him to remove to Great Salt Lake City, but he steadily resists all such importunities.

1859: 18 November, Welshman, p. 2 (100 words).

The same article as in the Cardiff Times for 19 November 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 19 November, North Wales Chronicle, p. 6 (100 words).

The same article as in the Cardiff Times for 19 November 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 19 November, Usk Observer, p. 4 (100 words).

The same article as in the Cardiff Times for 19 November 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 26 November, Monmouthshire Beacon, p. 2 (100 words).

The same article as in the Cardiff Times for 19 November 1859 (see previous entry).

1859: 3 December, Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, p. 7 (27 words).

The Boston Courier states that the family of Joe Smith, the great Mormon Prophet, still dwell at Nauvoo, and cannot be prevailed on to remove to Utah.

1859: 10 December, Chepstow Weekly Advertiser, p. 3 (100 words). “News from Utah.”

News has been received from the Great Salt Lake City to the 18th October. A man named Vincent was murdered on the night preceding, making the seventh murder since the commencement of Judge Sinclair’s court in the latter part of July last! Vincent was a gambler by profession, and a man of most desperate character. Six of the murders were committed by Mormons, none of whom were brought to justice. Ferguson, the Gentile, who killed a shopkeeper at the close of a drunken spree, has been sentenced to be hanged. A pretty state of things, truly!

Notes

[1] Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, 5 February 1859, 5.

[2] Ibid. See Millennial Star, 8 January 1859, 5.

[3] Cardiff Times, 12 March 1859, 4.

[4] Cambrian, 18 March 1859.

[5] The personal identification number (PID) for Thomas Read on FamilySearch.org is KWJ4-MNF.

[6] A full transcript of this interview is avaliable online (JSTOR).