In this interview, Yéah Samaké describes his conversion to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, how he became involved in public service in Mali, and how he uses his knowledge of the gospel and church organization in his public service. This interview was conducted on February 25, 2021, by Richard Davis, professor emeritus of political science at BYU.

Richard Davis: Could you tell us a little bit about your background?

Yéah Samaké: My name is Yéah Samaké. I’m from Mali, West Africa, born and raised in Ouélessébougou. It was founded by my great-great-grandfather, who is Ouélessé. I grew up . . . in a polygamous family, which is common in the predominantly Muslim Mali. My father had three wives.

Richard Davis: You were Muslim?

Yéah Samaké: I was. I was a Muslim and my father was—I have seventeen brothers and sisters: ten from my mother. And we grew up in Ouélessébougou in very modest circumstances, and I attended school there, and the closest high school from home was eighty kilometers. I had to travel to the capital city to go to high school and then graduated from high school and went to college to study teaching English as a second language. Following graduation, I taught for three years at the middle school of Ouélessébougou even though my training was to teach in high school. Because there was no job, I took it on as a volunteer. I didn’t want to sit and just wait for the government, and I decided to use my talent to make a difference at that point. So a few years later there was a mayoral election, the first mayoral election which was decentralized outside of the main cities. The government organized elections in 703 cities, so I took that opportunity to run for mayor in my community. I was teaching and doing radio shows and making myself useful for the community and thought I would run for mayor and get elected and be able to make a difference in the community, but unfortunately I was not elected. Then I came to America to pursue a higher education at BYU.

Richard Davis: Why BYU? You were not a Latter-day Saint at that time.

Yéah Samaké: No. You know, it was a miracle of circumstances when I met an LDS family in Mali, living in Colorado: the Winstons. The late Jeff and Gretchen Winston invited me to come because I did a lot of translation work for them when they came on an expedition. I also worked very closely with their daughter who is now a medical doctor: Susanna Winston. So they invited me to come over in Denver—by that time their son was going to school at BYU. So I came to spend some time with their son and that’s where I really started taking discussions to join the church. But I came and visited, and during that visit I got a job on campus at BYU at the Women’s Research Institute. I don’t know if that institute is still there, but Bonnie Spanvill hired me to translate forty hours of a documentary movie shot in Mali because I had already worked on it in Mali as a research assistant. So they hired me to translate those. Upon finishing I decided that I wanted to go to school, but in the meantime I learned about the gospel more and took a few discussions, and wanted to join the church. But unfortunately church leaders were not willing to baptize a Muslim returning back to the Muslim countries.

So they decided not to baptize me, and I took six more discussions in Colorado, and the outcome was that they were not authorized to baptize me. And then on my way home I flew to New York, where I met Jim Green. Jim Green was actually in the stake presidency, but he had visited me in Mali and had met my family. When I expressed my desire to join the church to him, he organized meetings with the missionaries there. So I took six more discussions, and they had difficulties to baptize me. But he called the Salt Lake City headquarters and was able to get permission to baptize me. So I was baptized September 12 of 2000, a few days before I returned home.

Richard Davis: And then tell me about the offices that you’ve run for and served in.

Yéah Samaké: I ran for mayor first in 1999 unsuccessfully, and then I decided that I wanted to run again and change my city. I was already working on building schools in Mali, so people have seen my dedication to serve the people of Mali. So I went back home to try to convince people that I wanted to run for mayor. The city of Ouélessébougou is about forty-four villages together; that’s the municipality of Ouélessébougou. I went down talking to people and convincing them that I wanted to run and that I needed their votes and that I would do this with the utmost integrity.

People at first were hesitant, but in the end the people were willing to go for it with me by 86 percent of the votes. And it was overwhelming. So I went back and thanked the people. When I was elected, I was already here in America. When it was proclaimed that I was mayor, I was sitting in my office in Utah.

So I flew back home and went around from village to village, to thank them for their trust and their vote and asking for their support. I said that voting is not enough; we have to work together. And they have to pay the taxes, because at that point very few people were paying their taxes. Now, less than 10 percent were paying their taxes because of corruption and the mayor didn’t benefit the trust of the people. So they refused to pay. Our taxes are per capita, where each individual, aged over eight years old, has to pay about three dollars a year.

So I told them if they pay their taxes, I will certainly be a good steward of the money, and I will use it for development purposes only and that the money will not be used for any other purpose. And they hesitated. I said, “Well, try me one year. If it doesn’t work, I have four more years in my term, I will not come and ask for money anymore.”

Well, they got excited because they said, “Well, if we’re not happy with the way he used the money, then we don’t have to pay anymore.” So 68 percent of the people paid the first year. After they did pay their taxes, I had this stash of money in cash. I wondered how . . . the people [would] like this money to be used.

And I came to think about organizing the elders quorum of the city of Ouélessébougou, which was something that I pulled out of my faith. That is—when people report and they know what’s going on, they will build more confidence. They will feel involved, and that will motivate them to participate in the local government. Because for me local government is all about facilitating people coming together to build a sustainable community.

As we did that, people began to really trust the process, and the next year they paid 72 percent. And the third year we did a record 100 percent, which was celebrated by the Ministry of Decentralization. And this became a tradition during the six years of my tenure as mayor. So it really made a big difference to not only collect our tax money, but to invest in those villages, who were a little bit reluctant to pay when faced with a stick. And those willing to pay also were given the carrots—because if you pay them, we pay for your teachers, the community teachers, the health workers—they have agents that were all paid by the city.

But if you don’t pay your taxes then we cannot take the tax money of one village and go pay your civil servant in another village. So I made it very clear that I wouldn’t budge on that principle—that if you don’t pay you don’t benefit.

At first people came in to threaten and say we don’t work for you anymore. I said, “You know I’m only here for one term as a mayor. This is a big sacrifice, but I love this community, and I love you guys. I want this to work, so no need to threaten because I am not going to run again for mayor.”

So people didn’t have a leverage and they saw that it was more expensive for them not to pay the taxes than to pay. So they came around and paid the taxes, and we got name recognition for that. And so after that I was appointed to be the vice president of the League of Mayors. We have 703 cities. So I used it to reach out to other mayors to talk about integrity, transparency, and also eradicating corruption in the public arena. I’ve brought some mayors here to Utah to meet other mayors to broaden their horizon of leadership.

I got a lot of calls to run for president. Of course, I also actually had the desire to run for president. This was in 2012. I got elected mayor in 2009, and in 2012 I decided to run for president.

Of course, I had not spent a lot of time in Mali. I didn’t have a name recognition big enough in the nation to run a successful race, but I was able to do a big campaign—truly different and bold. And I got my name in there, and one month before the election, we went through a coup d’état. So they overthrew the sitting president because of some discontent. The military people over there didn’t think that the president was spending the resources wisely, and they overthrew the government. That was a big setback, because I had spent all my money. I had borrowed money, I had raised money, and it was all gone and no election.

My ambition was to bring a different type of discourse to the public debate to the public arena. Leadership with integrity and servant leadership were the themes that I promoted during those campaigns. So in 2013 they lifted the suspension on the election. So we were able to do the election the year later. But I didn’t have enough money to do an honorable race. I still went and got my name out there, and I came sixteen out of twenty-six candidates with a very low score. The top two had all the scores, and then the rest of us got really, very low scores. The top two went to a runoff election.

So the top candidate asked me if I would support him. I said, “I’m not sure I can ask people to vote for you, because I doubt your ability to bring stability and prosperity to the people of Mali given your age, given your health status, and given your track record.” He said he wasn’t happy with that, and, you know, people around him were not happy with that. And then his challenger also came and asked if I would support him, and I said, “No, you guys have the same style of leadership, and we need a servant leadership. We don’t want a royalty in power right now in democracy.”

So I didn’t support either of the candidates. When one of them won the election and became the president, he called me and said, “Yéah, I admire your record of building schools, your record of leaving America to come live in Mali, and to support your community. You didn’t even live in the capital city, I admire that. If I don’t work with you, I’m not a good president, so where would you like to help?’

I said, “Well, I’d be very interested to serve as the ambassador of Mali to the United States.” He said, “I’m sorry. That position has already been filled.”

A few months later they called me, and said that they had an opening in India, if I’d be interested in going to India to serve as ambassador. I said, “I will have to talk to my wife about it.” Since she’s from India, she got very excited and threatened me if I refused this position.

But I said, “We’ll take it under the reserve that I’m not staying there the full term of five years. I’m coming back to run for president.” So I made it clear that in 2018 I will return to come serve. I didn’t tell the president that, but I told my wife that. And so we agreed before we took on the position. So I went there and served as ambassador for three years, and in September I flew back to inform the president that I was actually resigning my position and running for president. And he said, “No, that won’t be a good idea, and I would rather you stay there. When I win the election, you will continue to be my ambassador whether it’s in India or anywhere, but you will continue.”

I said, “I appreciate that, but this is not a negotiation. I just wanted to come in and inform you and also tell you that I have fulfilled my duty as ambassador with the utmost integrity and also with the results.” I had already made a video about this. But he said, “Well, wait for me. I’ll contact you before you resign.” So I waited and waited, waited, and waited until December. December 18th I contacted his prime minister and said, “Well, the president has asked me to wait and there is a limit to how long I can wait, because I’m coming to Mali in January 15 to tender my resignation.”

So he reported this to the president, and they decided to create a propaganda smear against me, telling the people that I got fired, that they recalled me. I didn’t respond to it because I knew better. I didn’t respond to the media. Most of the outlets wanted me to have a reaction. I said, “There is no reaction.” You know, I won’t confront him on this and just continued. And I went back home and organized my campaign seven months before the elections and ran again for election. I came about fourteen out of twenty-four again, and the top two went to a runoff.

But at this time, they were the same two who were opposed in 2013, and I decided that we will support the sitting president, given that he only has one more term; and if the other guy gets elected, he is going to do two more terms. I was quoted during that day, saying, “They are the same failed policies, the same corrupt people, and not able to serve the people.”

So we did that, without really requesting anything from the president, and he came—he was very happy with our decision. He made promises that he was then able to keep. I had, during all my campaign, informed people that this guy is not right for the office because of his health, because of his age, but also because of his corruption and we’ve seen five years of his failed policies. I said, “If you put him back in office, it would be a disaster.”

Richard Davis: Tell me about the reaction of the people to the fact that you are not a Muslim—that you were a Mormon—while you were the mayor, while you were running for president. What was the reaction of people?

Yéah Samaké: Well, religion is not a divider in Mali. People are looking to make ends meet, to have three meals a day, to have quality education for their children. Those are the basic needs of the people that are in Mali today.

Running for mayor was never an issue. There were some protocol issues where the mayor is not attending mosque, because usually the mayor has his place in the mosque right behind the imam on Fridays and on Muslim celebrations, and so suddenly there was a void. But I always made sure that I was represented by one of my city councilmen.

Running for president, of course, some of your opponents will try to smear and inform people and try to scare people by your religion but you cannot do it publicly, because then it will backfire. I’ve seen instances where clerics were informing the people in the mosque, in their congregation about my faith. Now they will say that our hesitation is that he’s not part of our faith. It was hurtful at first, but I didn’t have a big name recognition as in 2018 or today, because my name recognition has probably risen to five times more than it was in 2018.

I had to go public and go face the media and broadcast what I was accomplishing through my foundation in terms of building schools, providing the perpetual constructive funds, giving scholarship and tractors to villagers, and building teacher housing. We built schools in forty different villages. We had the media report on what I have done through my foundation. So people got quite excited, and my name went out in places where people now have been calling to be a part of my political party, because they said, “This guy is making a difference in villages already before even being elected president or member of the Parliament, or even a minister.” So really I built the name recognition that is nationwide right now.

Richard Davis: We’ve been talking about your background, primarily, and I just wondered how your faith might have affected your approach to politics. I know that you mentioned the servant leader—maybe you could elaborate more on what that means to you?

Yéah Samaké: I think that these principles are universal, that, you know, it’s true. One of my favorite scriptures is, “When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God” (Mosiah 2:17). But I grew up in a home where my father was always in the service of the community. He was dedicated to that. But we also come from a service lineage—the chief of the villages—and so it requires a lot of service to the community, because you are the chief of the village in all. You know, it’s trying to help people in the village, trying to find solutions to issues affecting the community.

But joining the church truly got me more focused on service and made it my purpose, and, you know, I could have lived in America, but I realized America doesn’t need me, but Mali does. And, you know, it’s difficult to leave the freedoms of America behind and go to Mali, where things are not so easy, and there is no abundance as it is here in America. In America I would be focused just on me and my family. But while running for mayor in Mali, I’d be focused on sixty to seventy thousand people in my community. Learning of Jesus really focused my sense of service into not just thinking but putting it into action. But also a good testimony that when you serve others, there is no doubt that your own personal needs will be met.

So I openly embrace that I’m a follower of Jesus Christ, and I seek inspiration from him. And I seek guidance in everything, every aspect of my life, politics or not. But of course, I use the everyday tools that are available. As students of public policy from BYU, we design policies and learn how to properly look into the impact of any policy we make. Of course, you use those! But it doesn’t prevent us from seeking inspiration, and I do. I believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the most organized, the most well-organized institution on earth, I believe that.

So I learned from that. I look at areas where this can be replicated in my specific area of policy design. So yes, it has affected and will continue to affect my life in every aspect, including politics.

Richard Davis: So you’re certainly unique in the sense that you are a Latter-day Saint of Mali. I don’t know how many members of the church there are, but I’m guessing not many.

Yéah Samaké: In 2009 it was just me and my family. But now we have a little over one hundred converts. We have three branches, so the church is growing, and I contributed significantly in helping the church register in Mali; of course, through the leadership of Elder [Marcus B.] Nash, who was the area president. But I worked closely with the government, specifically the president.

Richard Davis: So what lessons have you learned about politics that you’d like to share with young people contemplating public service, particularly in areas where there’s not a predominantly Latter-day Saint population?

Yéah Samaké: Well, I have been contacted by many people from Congo, from Zambia, from Ivory Coast, even from Burkina, from young Latter-day Saint members who saw my story. And they contacted me and asked for counsel, how they can get started. I give them my advice—you’re not running because you love it, you’re running because you love your country. You’re running because you believe in something.

You have to be engaged. You have to commit yourself to it. Leaders don’t just wake up one day. It’s something that is planned; it’s something that you work on, and you have to be known in the community for your involvement. You cannot just come from America one day and say, “Hey, I’m the candidate,” without any ties to your community. That’s not how it works. You have to have a real commitment, not just the hunger for power or the thirst for power, but the desire to help and make a real difference.

So the job you choose, everything is in line with what you really want to do. So you cannot just wake up one day and say, “Well, I want to run for mayor in my community, or I want to be president.” It takes a lot of preparation. These are incredibly competitive offices that you are seeking, and they’re not going to give it to you because you’re LDS. It makes it more difficult for you because you’re LDS.

But I tell people, if I don’t become president, it’s not because of my faith. But if I become president, it is definitely because of my faith, because it prepared me for this. It truly helped me rise from dirt poverty to where I am today. I worked hard, and I believe in working really hard to achieve something. I believe in having objectives and having a purpose in life. So you have to have that passion. Mine was very natural because of my natural ties to my community, my natural ties my country, but we can all develop that.